|Posted By||Subject :Legacy Puma P92 lever action rifle in .454 Casull|
Has anyone had experience with this brand of rifle. I'm told they are the only ones building this lever rifle chambered in this round and some question the strength of the mechanism to holdup to the pressures of the .454 Casull. I understand Rossi builds them overseas.|
Some ask why I want this! Just wanted a companion rifle for my Ruger Super Redhawk in the same round.
Some gun shops say they are good/excellent and other says they are questionable in quality and reliability. Any input would be appreciated.
|That one would make me a little nervous. Some 454 loads generate about twice as much pressure as the 44 Magnum. |
Even taking modern metallurgy into account, that just seems like it is over the line in a 114 year old rear-locking action design.
Then there is the recoil factor. It would be like touching off a 45-70 in a 6 pound rifle with a compromised stock design.
If I was really hot on the trail of such a companion rifle I might find a nice used Ruger No.1 and have it re-chambered or re-barreled to 454.
|I own one of those in 45 colt. I use corbon plus 1,s in it for other than just plinking. I have never fired a .454 casul but understand it is similar to 45.70 I don't think the rifle would take a whole lot rounds loaded that heavy unless they have beefed it up and doubt they have done that.|
It is a nice carbine my wife normally carries it on her horse. I don't think you would want to go more that .44magnum in it.
|You might find this interesting|
|I've talked to Legacy Sports and they say the models in .454 Casull are some of the most popular being sold. Several gun dealers have told me the same and have sold lots of them without any customer complaints.|
I'm going to look at one today that I've located a distance away. Everyone's comments have me thinking about some of the other models. Another P92 model exists with 24" Octagon barrel with old fashioned butt plate that comes in .44 Rem. Mag., 357/.38 special and .45LC.
Maybe I should get the model in either .357 (since I have lots of those pistols) or go with the .45LC. since my Ruger Super Redhawk will also shoot this.
I've had trouble with consistency in shooting my Redhawk with the Hornady hot loads. Found out it was me not the gun. If I stick with the lighter loads of Winchesters, maybe the .454 Casull will be ok while I'm still supposed to be able to shoot .45LC's through it. I understand they have strengthed this model group and have a heavier round barrel.
If I go with the .357 or .45LC calibers that opens me up to some other brands like Cimarron,Uberti, Marlin, Navy Arms and others.
|I think Marlin makes the best lever guns in the world. Everyone else is second fiddle, especially since Winchester is closing their doors.|
The .357 carbine with the right factory loads has the same power at close range as standard 30-30 loads. I can refer you to some web pages with that info.
The 44 mag carbine, again with the right loads, will shoot clean through any animal in this hemisphere..... including Kodiak bears.
A Marlin 45 Colt model 94 should do about anything the 44 will do. A viable option for you might be to load your Ruger with heavy 45 Colt loads from Corbon, Buffalo Bore and others, and carry the same in a Marlin carbine.
Heavy 45 Colt loads, IMHO, will do anything you can do with Casull loads and will do it with less pressure and wear and tear on the guns, to say nothing of your wrists and ears.
After you have reached the threshold of shooting through the largest critter on the Continent from almost any angle, what good is even more power?
|I dug through my stack of magazines and found a very informative article of the 454 carbine in the Jan 2006 issue of Rifle. |
It is authored by Brian Pearce, a straight shooter and honest kind of guy.
I would be happy to copy/jpeg it to you if you are interested.
He writes about a couple of folks with thousands of rounds through their rifles without problems and also details the testing procedures used by H.P. White labs to certify the rifle.
Let me know.........
|Yes, I would be very interested in reading the article. I've read a number of articles from years back ('99) when Puma first started selling it. Most everyone has commented good things. One guy had an issue with cartridges splitting.|
I've talked with Thompson Center's ammo guy and he said that they had problems with accuracy on barrels longer than 15". He said their twist rate didn't work well (1:16) except in certain types of ammo. They've come out with rifles chambered in the .460 & .500. He said they don't have much luck with Hornady ammo and seem to feel that Corbon works better with their products.
Have been looking at the Marlin, EMF and Navy Arms (the last 2) are imported brands and I believe made by the same people. Guess Taurus has something to do with them now. I was also looking at a .357 Mag and .45LC.
The TC guy told me he has a Puma in .357 and is surprised on the quality and told me it's mechanism is beefier than the orginal Winchester. It has sizeable double tangs.
The feel of the Puma stock fits me better than the rest. The drop, etc. works good for me. With others, I can't get a good sight picture and get out of the window of my trifocals. (May need to get a pair of shooting glasses that have the bi's and tri's going full width especially toward the nosepiece). Originally I wanted the Hi-Viz sights but they seemed blurry to me. Don't know how well they work in the sunlight. The Puma's rear sight is also more like a modern open rear sight and has a nice open picture when viewing through it. It is not an old fashioned Buckhorn style like the rest.
I agree that probably the Marlin is a better gun but it just didn't seem to pull-up right as nicely as the Puma. Down side is, I don't like the very dark almost black stain on the Puma stock. The EMF stocks looked better and in the .45LC with hex barrel and old fashioned butt plate it looks like an old Western rifle. I'm not into cowboy shooting but like the looks of the rifle.
I got it bad for getting a new rifle. Sure don't need it, have all sorts of them laying around. The .357 Mag. is more practical being cheaper to shoot. However, the .454 Casull does have the shock and awe appeal and the versatility of also shooting the .45LC.
If I go with the Casull model, chances are I'll be shooting the low to mid powered Winchester ammo through it that is the same on my Super Redhawk. That's about 30-50% more than a .44 Mag.
If I go with the .45LC and use heavier ammo, I'm almost attaining the pressures of the Casull. Puma says the Casull model has been beefed up with heat treat.
|Yooper......... did the e-mail come through? |
I am concerned that the format might be too small to read well. I can resend in a larger format if necessary.
|Yes, the e-mail came through. Thanks for the information!! I was able to view it through Adobe reader and blow it up. It was slightly out of focus but readible. The article seems to confirm that the gun is ok with that round and the quality is so,so (Rossi quality). Also makes me feel that the gun may not like certain rounds. My 30-30 and a few others are that way, so it shouldn't be a big deal.|
I was out shooting last night with my other engineer that works with me. We were shooting .40 S&W pistols and .357 Mag. revolvers. It was a beautiful late afternoon with temps in the high 50's and barely any wind. We shot a box of each.
I really want the rifle in .454 Casull but wonder if I can afford to shoot it. Cartridges are almost $1.00 per round. Business better pickup!!
Spoke with the importer, Legacy Sports and they currently are out of the model and barrel length that I'm looking for. I have to be patient.